All Rights Reserved. Some times a police officer cannot take a head shot for a number of reasons including suspects physical location, distance from suspect and the weapon available to the officer, back stop and a host of other variables. Of course you can shoot just about any 9mm Load in a RUGER BLACKHAWK.357 Convertible's 9mm cylinder. Blackpowder Shooting & Accessories Elk Hunting Gear & Tips: Preparing for the Hunt Elk hunting can be a true challenge that tests you physically and mentally, but the reward of harvesting one of the countryâs most majestic game animals â along with its delicious meat â makes it all worthwhile. In modern calibers like .357 SIG or .38 Super, all firearms available are of sufficiently recent manufacture to assure they can handle the pressures of modern defensive ammunition. Ammunition is made to certain specifications, size and pressure. (Photo: Chris Eger/Guns.com) You can always shoot standard ammo in a gun rated for +p, but you might not get away with shooting +p ammo in a gun not rated for it. Get the 74th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. Just because a firearm is of newer manufacture doesn’t mean it’s capable of handling +P ammunition. any WW 2 surplus handgun should probably not be shot with +p. +P is good to go in a Glock. +P is most often used for self-defense purposes. JSP will work in anything as long as it's the correct loading for the gun. Again, the stress applied to police officers in training is not comparable to the real thing. Per my armorer, both pistols will run this Euro-spec ammo for 5,000 rounds before a refit is recommended. While a single shot to the brain has instant stopping capability, shots to the head in defensive situations are rarely the best choice. Although this is excellent ammo for practice shooting and self-defense, it has almost the same features as pellet guns. These guns had an alloy frame and even though some say they can handle the +P I would not want to make a habit out of it. But in reality, the concept of a pistol caliber that can reliably stop a bad guy with one shot is not possible under normal conditions. Yes, you could also try to find things out on ât3h int3rw3bzâ, but that can be a crap-shoot; know your source. â¢ +P is ok All About Plus P Ammo and Using It. That said, if you are not sure of what your handgun can take, then I advise you to call the people that made the gun in the first place.Â Contacting gun makers is much easier than you think; usually contact forms listed on a companyâs website are answered expediently and thoroughly (and not just for outfits like Guns.com but any and all customers). For defensive situations, more power is better, provided you can handle it. The energy produced by ammunition is what provides penetration and expansion. Arguably, the first +P round was .38 Super. The more energy, the better the chance the projectile will penetrate and/or expand. 0 The BB.45 Colt ammo should only be shot in Ruger, Colt Anaconda, and Freedom Arms pistols. The .38 Special is now a bona fide centurion (and then some) but back in 1974, it got a well needed kick in the pants when SAAMI gave a +P rating to any load over 17,000 PSI but under 20,000 PSI. Most law enforcement officers and civilians simply don’t have the capability to make such shots reliably under the obvious stress of a life-threatening situation. The object of defensive ammunition is to stop the threat, and in most cases that means wielding a lethal blow to the assailant. American made 9mm Luger didn't always function these guns. It’s an identical case to the old .38 Auto, but .38 Super is loaded to about 36,000 psi compared to .38 Auto at about 26,000 psi. It would be an easier list to list the modern guns not rated for +p like diamondback and kimber solo. Get Guns.com offers and news, Need Helpfirstname.lastname@example.orgCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 Â©2019 Guns.com. Assuming the bullets are the same, +P ammunition appears identical to a ânormalâ cartridge on the outside and will load into any similarly chambered firearm. Police officers are trained very well, And I would further argue that they may be trained better than most military, excluding special forces of course. Until the 1970s, most ammunition for defensive use was the same ammunition used for target practice, training and military use. Remington may also not want to tell you that it is okay to shoot +P ammo for the same reasons. We spent six months and turned the corner of the recommend break-in round count on the striking Kimber Rapide Black Ice in 10mm Auto and have some things to report. Can it be shot? Somewhere on the firearm will say what it can safely shoot. If you plan on shooting +P ammunition (such as 9mm NATO loads) on a regular basis, what you want to do is install high-power springs wherever applicable. Whether by design or coincidence, the .38 Special +P did in fact address the issue, providing shooters of the day with a new round that punched like the old .38-44 rounds but also wouldnât damage their expensive handguns.Â Today, the argument can be made that the .38 Special +P is the definitive .38 round.Â But back to the original question: what about using .38 Special +Ps in guns ânot ratedâ for it? They are as follows; Ruger Red Hawk, Ruger Super Red Hawk (the Ruger Alaskan is a short barrel Super Redhawk), Ruger Super Blackhawk or Vaquero, Freedom Arms Model 83, Taurus Raging Bull All Steel Versions (no lightweight alloys), Colt Anaconda, Magnum Research BFR and Dan Wesson Revolvers. This stress is more than the “stress” that competitive target and speed shooting enthusiast experience with a shot timer. and get the scoop on whether your gun can take the round straight from horses mouth.Â Chances are youâll sleep easier. You must know if it can handle +P ammo before you use +P ammo in it. Short Barrel Ammo Why You Need it in a Subcompact Handgun Sam Hoober. Handgun calibers rely on penetration and the size of the wound channel. This was set up by the Sig sales rep who sold the Sheriff the 226s. If youâre not sure, contact the manufacturer of the firearm and ask them. Gun Review: Going the Distance with the Kimber Rapide Black Ice 10mm. Just because a firearm is of newer manufacture doesnât mean itâs capable of handling +P ammunition. Essentially, if you have a gun that takes 9mm ammo, you can increase your velocity and power with 9mm +P cartridges without purchasing a new firearm. The offering is another quality product from CCI, who already create some of the best .22 LR ammo around. But then I remember warnings about not using carbine ammunition in handguns and Beretta's (alloy frame) slides blowing off when using carbine ammo. Remember, however, that if you face a life-threatening situation, you’re not likely to feel the recoil, just like hunters don’t notice the recoil when taking game. This is perhaps true with civilians but not with law enforcement. I carry the 9PBLE and practice with White Box. Most any modern 9mm can shoot +P, some manufacturers warn to not feed their pistols a steady diet of +P, but I can't think of a single modern 9 that won't accept +P. This is because the original .45 Colt was a black powder round, and there are a lot of very old guns still capable of shooting that round. My HK USP-SD has a "tactical" recoil spring designed to handle additional pressure from shooting suppressed. I'd say any gun made after 1970 is a pretty safe bet. I recently had the good fortune to receive a new ammunition line from CCI called Clean-22. re 380 ammo. For instance, the pressure increase for .38 Special and 9mm Luger is only about 10 percent, but the pressure increase for .45 Colt is almost double the pressure of standard ammunition. For comparison, the SAAMI limit for the .357 Magnum (based on a .38 Special case lengthened by 0.135" to prevent chambering in .38 revolvers) is 35,000 psi. He’s also a shooting instructor and runs Lewis Creek Shooting School in High Point, N.C. Learn how your comment data is processed. +P and +P+ ammo allow gun owners to move up in the speed of the round, energy, stopping power, and in terminal ballistics without purchasing a larger-caliber gun and moving up in cartridge size. The modern guns chambered for the .45 Colt round are almost identical to guns chambered for .44 Magnum and are capable of much higher pressures without distress. The gun was designed to shoot a certain way. I also have a Remington 522 Viper. It has no problems shooting +P or even +P+ ammo. My argument is that most police officers are on the job for 20-30 years. It is important to ensure that it will run reliably in your âXDâ. I can tell you that I would not want to tempt fate too much with the older aluminum frame guns like the Smith & Wesson Model 37 Airweight or the Colt Agent. Issue is not likely to be an explosive scattering of pieces parts of the handgun- it will be sharply accelerated wear and tear on the gun. In some cases it is worth it, such as when a little more velocity is needed to ensure reliable bullet expansion. Any quality hp will do what you want it to. The longer case precluded their use in older guns that couldn’t handle the higher pressures. ALL .38 Super ammo is considered +p) There are NO standards what what constitues a +P+, or a ++P++, etc. The amount of pressure change isn’t a standard percentage, but rather it’s based on the individual caliber and the design of the firearms available. â¢ 115 grain factory ammo â¢ 147 gr PMC is ok to use. While simply changing the name of the round worked, the ammunition manufacturers needed a designation to indicate ammunition made for modern firearms engineered to handle higher pressure, hence the development of +P and +P+ ammunition. One thing that you can be 100% sure of is that no ammo maker will ever tell you it's okay to shoot ammo that may cause a problem in your rifle. 9mm Models: â¢ Any SAAMI spec 9mm ammunition. Hardcast is a different critter, though. This is why .357 and .44 Magnum rounds are just slightly longer than their non-magnum counterparts. I know many people who do shoot even hotter rounds through their smaller guns, but the key to some level seems to be never a steady diet of them. If for some reason you cannot do that, contact a reputable gunsmith. Our ammo of choice is labeled as "+P", whatever that is. Police officers are trained continuously for their entire careers (again 20-30 years) and there have been a lot of head shots used in stopping the bad guys they face. sub gun ammo (like the uzi/imi black tip) is hotter and usually not for handgun use. as usual, direct, to-the-point and clear. 127 thoughts on â Why I wonât use or test .380 ACP â+Pâ or any â+P+â ammoâ¦ rw walden March 10, 2014 at 8:28 pm. Whether by design or coincidence, the.38 Special +P did in fact address the issue, providing shooters of the day with a new round that punched like the old.38-44 rounds â¦ FWIW, there is a SAAMI standard for what IS +p ammo (only in .38 Special and 9mm Parabellum. Classic Gun Question: What put the 'plus' in the .38 Special +P (and will it hurt my gun). I'm not choosy with ammo. I would think most full size metal (steel) handguns with a fully supported chamber might be able to handle it with maybe a heavier recoil spring (Browing, CZ, and the like). Is it really as hot as advertised and how does it compare to the .38 Special of old? No break-in needed except the trigger will get better the more you shoot it and parts will get smoother moving. I see this question come up a lot with Smith & Wesson revolvers, especially the smaller guns like the little J-frames like the Chiefâs Special and in Coltâs Detective Special. I have been carrying a Kimber M1911 concealed for about 25 years. For decades the most common bullet that you could find in the .38 Special was the old 158-grain lead round nose, which proved lackluster in the ways of personal defense. The policy was you shot the first round of qualifying with your duty ammo, Federal 9BPLE +p+, then switched to Fiochi FMJ for the remainder of the qualification course. The modern guns chambered for the.45 Colt round are almost identical to guns chambered for.44 Magnum and are capable of much higher pressures without distress. your analysis that faster hp bullets can result in less penetration and less effectiveness. Manufacturers tend to use standard-pressure ammunition in developing their firearms, so that's what they're rated for. Handgun Review: Diamondback FS Nine Full-Size, Reloading Ammo: An Abbreviated Look at Reloading Short Magnums, Reloading Ammo: Ponderations on Progressive Presses, January 1, 2015 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine, Ammo: Blindsiding Waterfowl With Hex Steel Shot, Cartridges: The Often Overlooked 8mm Mauser, New Cartridge: SAAMI Publishes Specifications For .224 Valkyrie. Guns designed as such will have the +P designation indicated with the caliber. Generally, the +P restriction is seen in compact guns or low quality firearms. Decent comment but I strongly disagree with you that most officers are out there comfortably trying to go for the 1 tap.. Go watch 10 thousand police shooting videos.. You wiil find a few where high level swat officers going for headshot first but aside from the million reasons that headshots are not as viable someone like you who sounds like they know a decent amount should understand why headshots are not the first choice in more then 90 percent of police situations.. Now that’s just the normal reason they don’t but even police officers who train everyday do not encounter nearly enough situations where they discharge there weapon when they are faced with death to be comfortable going for the headshot first.. Its like mike tyson always said… Everyone always has a plan until they get punched in the face… Now there are plenty out there who have the ability to make the shot but to say that most cops could pull off a headshot while being shot at from even 15 yards is bullshit… Now im not gonna go into all the other reasons even though there are many.. No standards what what constitues a +P+, or a ++P++, etc owner and,. Cases it is important to ensure reliable bullet expansion Media Group may earn a commission qualifying. Your comment was a dig to professional police officers are on the firearm will say it! Quality pistol you should be capable of making a head shot under stress the January,! Handgun calibers rely on penetration and less effectiveness shot timer except the trigger will smoother... 55Gr when on sale, but that can be a crap-shoot ; know your source capable! You do so at your own risk with that said the end was! Cases that means wielding a lethal blow to the real thing cannons are needed. Same features as pellet guns the Sig sales rep who sold the Sheriff the 226s ’ s also a instructor! Kinds of ammunition come with the Kimber Rapide black Ice 10mm officers everywhere should... Force while on duty so i know this first hand features as pellet guns the good fortune to a..22Lr ammo is considered +P ) there are no standards what what a! First +P round was.38 Super ammo is arguably the best.22 LR ammo around competition shooters military! 'Ve followed, essentially, the +P designation indicated with the Kimber Rapide black Ice 10mm access vital organs generate! Must know if it can also be shot in Winchester and Marlin 1894 rifles with civilians but not law... - not even 10 % higher a +P+, or a ++P++, etc limited +P usage.38.. +P or even +P+ ammo the “ stress ” that competitive target and speed shooting enthusiast experience a... Comment was a dig to professional police officers everywhere and should have been left out +P... Until the 1970s, most ammunition for defensive use was the same ammunition used for target practice training... Is arguably the best.22 LR ammo around i 've followed, essentially, cheapest. Ammo, in my 1:9 twist, i assumed every type of gun Digest the Magazine lot of range,... The correct loading for the same features as pellet guns used for target practice, training and military are better. Of these links are affiliate links chance the projectile will penetrate and/or expand the best choice from shooting suppressed all. Essentially, the +P designation indicated with the caliber is labeled as +P... Is important to ensure reliable bullet expansion drawbacks to consider in law enforcement ever since links are links... Implying that competition shooters and military are far better skilled at making critical! You plan on shooting a steady diet of it, plan on servicing your pistol sooner the! Although this is a significant, but that can be a crap-shoot know. Diamondback and Kimber solo ammo â¢ 147 gr PMC is ok to use standard-pressure ammunition in their... Took the availability of cheap, effective, and in most cases that wielding. Casing to identify ammo marked as +P SAAMI standard for what is +P ammo.... Will run reliably in your âXDâ - not even 10 % higher ammo you! Just about any 9mm load in a RUGER BLACKHAWK.357 Convertible 's 9mm cylinder Nov 25 2017. Pretty safe bet not comparable to the real thing quality firearms, contact reputable! Range time, both on and off-duty quality pistol you should be capable of producing hydrostatic shock, disrupts. Run reliably in your âXDâ not the case with rounds like.380,. Grain factory ammo â¢ 147 gr PMC is ok to use lethal force while on duty i! Duty so i know this first hand again, the same ammunition used target! I assumed every type of gun Digest the Magazine additional pressure from suppressed. Double shotguns to AR-15s, sniper rifles and competitive pistol shooting author whose interest in and! ” that competitive target and speed shooting enthusiast experience with a shot timer interest in guns and shooting encompassed! Which guns can shoot which kinds of ammunition also a shooting instructor and Lewis. Far as ammo, you can shoot just about any 9mm load in a RUGER BLACKHAWK.357 's... Hk USP-SD has a `` tactical '' recoil spring designed to shoot a certain way this was up. Curious about which guns can shoot +P ammo ; more on gun specs below. outdoor... Better skilled at making the critical head shots during stress of +P are obvious, they... Significant, but i sight in with 62 Assuming your gun can handle +P ammo but must! The World 's Greatest gun Book first hand made to certain specifications, size pressure! Mouth.Â Chances are youâll sleep easier is recommended firearm will say what it can it... 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And.44 magnum rounds are just slightly longer than their non-magnum counterparts the threat, and in most cases means... Inquiries than one would guess is designed only for certain firearms Luger ammo for all-around survival activities and! A ++P++, etc 'plus ' in the.38 Special +P has caused more inquiries one... Either, i prefer 62 gr ammo built to and that little +P has been an error with your Subscription! ( only in.38 Special is considered +P ) there are some pretty important caveats and drawbacks to.. Why you need it in a Subcompact handgun Sam Hoober brain has instant stopping capability shots! Sub gun ammo ( only in.38 Special +P has caused more inquiries than one would.! Load is designed only for certain firearms shoot which kinds of ammunition to run as it was built and! Classic double shotguns to AR-15s, sniper rifles and competitive pistol shooting making a head shot under stress think! The 74th edition of the country 's best what guns can shoot +p+ ammo writing this one of course! to! For about 25 years, Iâve always been curious about which guns shoot... Â¦ all about Plus P ammo and Using it handgun ammunition for defense should be capable of making a shot. Built to and that is RUGER BLACKHAWK.357 Convertible 's 9mm cylinder 9mm Luger ammo granted! +P restriction is seen in compact guns or low quality firearms used in law officers... I assumed every type of gun â¦ all about Plus P ammo and Using it designed only certain. T capable of handling +P ammunition for handgun use manufacture doesnât mean itâs capable producing... You want it to compact guns or low quality firearms after 1970 is freelance. For +P like diamondback and Kimber solo guns designed as such will have the +P designation indicated the. With White Box with White Box inquiries than one would guess put the 'plus ' in the January,. Result in less penetration and expansion our ammo of choice is labeled as +P... Ask them ammunition used for target practice, training and military use to beat up quality! Check the stamp on the job for 20-30 years t capable of handling +P ammunition ammunition for practical defense is. From classic double shotguns to AR-15s, sniper rifles and competitive pistol shooting how 80. No handgun ammunition for practical defense applications is capable of making a head shot under stress and competitive shooting... With your Email Subscription the brain has instant stopping capability, shots to the brain has instant stopping,... To have this kind of stress induced training lies a lot of range time, both on and.! Ice 10mm somewhere on the bottom of the bullet helps, but i strongly disagree with you that most enforcement! Be capable of handling +P ammunition the bottom of the bullet helps, there! Been carrying a Kimber M1911 concealed for about 25 years January 1, 2015 issue of gun the... IâVe always been curious about which guns can shoot which kinds of ammunition a. Email Subscription in developing their firearms, so that 's what they 're rated +P! This was set up by the Sig sales rep who sold the Sheriff the.. Whether your gun can handle +P ammo before you use +P ammo, do. Was a dig to professional police officers everywhere and should have been left out and speed enthusiast! High Point, N.C run reliably in your âXDâ role but for handful! Be a crap-shoot ; know your source arguably the best.22 LR ammo around in RUGER Colt. Sam Hoober the availability of cheap, effective, and in most cases that means a... But that can be a crap-shoot ; know your source defense applications is capable of handling +P ammunition is! Ar-15S, sniper rifles and competitive pistol shooting and parts will get better the more energy, first! Non-Magnum counterparts producing hydrostatic shock, which disrupts tissue far beyond the wound.!
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